1491

[Adam Ziegler]

Just finished up reading 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles Mann and found it fascinating. Has anyone else read this book? What did you find most interesting about it? (Here's a link: http://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=140004006x)

For me, the biggest revelation was that the indigenous civilizations had such sophisticated agricultural systems. And their accomplishments as plant breeders are only now being fully recognized.

I recall reading in Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond that one of the reasons the Europeans had such rapid success as conquerors was that Europe had more domesticable species, giving them advantages in animal power and agriculture. While this still appears to hold true for animal species, it no longer seems credible for plant species.

As a gardener who has an interest in the origin of species like potatoes, tomatoes, corn, squash, avocados, beans, sweet potatoes, and many others, I feel foolish for having accepting this notion. But I like wheat and rice, and I think my dietary preferences clouded my perception.

If you're a science fiction writer (and a few of you are), then this book might be an interesting study of a clash of alien cultures. I wonder, do science fiction writers read much history with the intent of finding source material? Probably someone like Harry Turtledove does, but in general?

[PixelFish]

I do, because I'm trying to build a semi-realistic fantasy world without resorting to the generic "everything is medieval, except when it isn't" setting. I actually evolved a history based upon nomadic tribes, and which one settled into hunting and gathering first, and how their totemic god worship became the dominant father religion for the continent, and how THAT evolved....and so on...

I'm actually reading Guns, Germs, and Steel right now, and while it has many great ideas, I was a little dubious about the agriculture claim too. On the other hand, without the wheel in wide use, I can see how even an agriculturally advanced society would still be limited by means of distribution. And I imagine the topology of the new world had a lot to do with things as well--this side of the world didn't have a central sea around which civilizations clustered and shared knowledge. All in all, it's fun to speculate about things and see where you can use them in world building.

[Adam Ziegler]

Wheels are another fascinating story. Archaeologists have found toys that had functioning wheels in South America. So the Native Americans knew how make wheels, knew how they worked, but never used them except as novelties. In the book there is speculation that this could be due to the rugged terrain (as you suggest) or perhaps because there were no large domesticated animals to pull a wheeled vehicle.

Something else that your post recalled for me was the notion of Indians as nomadic hunter-gatherers living in small tribes. While some Native Americans surely did live this way, there's evidence that many more lived in agricultural societies, even in North America. But by the time colonists encountered them, their societies and support systems had been devastated by epidemics. Many Indians fell back on a nomadic lifestyle because their previous way of life had collapsed.

[Rita In Hoood]

Okay, i've been thinking for a while that I'd love to see an alien invasion story set in . .oh, 2020, where the plot line mirror practically precisely the european invasion of the americas ala 1491.

The various pre1492 viking visits can be seen happening in Rosewell, NM.

The aliens finally come down and make a settlement we can't hide/destroy/ignore and so we try to trade with them.

Our basic ideas of ownership don't match theirs

They disturb our graveyards on a regular basis (perhaps they need something that's in aged wood from coffins)

Once a small group has a toehold, suddenly they come in droves, and start driving humans off the land with their advanced technology

etc - alien invasion stories are a dime a dozen, but how closely could SF parallel the historical rather then popular version of the european invasion? Footfall starts down that road, but the aliens don't have a human Squanto nor pretend to live peacably (on their terms) in an on-planet colony. And besides, the elephants lose.